Journals of the Senate
59 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2010, Canada
Journals of the Senate
3rd Session, 40th Parliament
Issue 66
Wednesday, November 17, 2010
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Baker, Banks, Boisvenu, Braley, Brazeau, Brown, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, De Bané, Di Nino, Dickson, Downe, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Fortin-Duplessis, Fox, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kinsella, Kochhar, Lang, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, Mahovlich, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Pépin, Peterson, Plett, Poirier, Poy, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Seidman, Sibbeston, Smith, St. Germain, Stewart Olsen, Stollery, Tardif, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Zimmer
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Baker, Banks, Boisvenu, Braley, Brazeau, Brown, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, *Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, *Day, De Bané, Di Nino, Dickson, Downe, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Fortin-Duplessis, Fox, *Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, *Hubley, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kinsella, Kochhar, Lang, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, *MacDonald, Mahovlich, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Mitchell, *Mockler, Moore, Munson, *Murray, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Pépin, Peterson, Plett, Poirier, Poy, *Raine, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, *Rompkey, Runciman, Seidman, Sibbeston, Smith, St. Germain, Stewart Olsen, Stollery, *Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Zimmer
The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.
An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.
PRAYERS
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Harb tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, respecting its participation at the Parliamentary Panel within the Framework of the World Trade Organization (WTO) Public Forum 2010 and the 22nd Session of the Steering Committee of the Parliamentary Conference on the WTO, held in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 16, 2010.—Sessional Paper No. 3/40-817.
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The Honourable Senator Massicotte tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-Africa Parliamentary Association respecting its participation in the bilateral visits to Cotonou, Benin and Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso, from September 5 to 12, 2010.—Sessional Paper No. 3/40-818.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
Pursuant to rule 59(10), the Honourable Senator Mitchell raised a question of privilege with respect to the content of the Debates of the Senate.
Debate.
SPEAKER'S RULING
Honourable senators, let me thank all honourable senators for their interventions on this matter. It is important that the matter was brought to the floor of the house. I am prepared to deal with it.
First and foremost, the official record of this house is the publication that is on our desks every day called the Journals of the Senate. That is the only official record. If you look at page 948 of the Journals of the Senate from November 16, 2010, it describes that Commons Public Bills were called; Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and were postponed until the next sitting. Then:
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Mitchell, seconded by the Honourable Senator Banks, for the second reading of Bill C-311, An Act to ensure Canada assumes its responsibilities in preventing dangerous climate change.
The question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following vote.
Honourable senators, that is the official record.
I will come to the matter of Hansard that has been the subject of discussion.
As I listened to the debate around the matter, yesterday the proceedings were perfectly in order in the disposition of Bill C-311. There was lots of time; there was a delay of an hour for the vote; but the decision was made. Since a decision of the house was made, I feel it is my obligation to remind honourable senators that, as recorded in Beauchesne, sixth edition, at citation 479:
A Member may not speak against or reflect upon any determination of the House, unless intending to conclude with a motion for rescinding it.
Page 617 of the second edition of House of Commons Procedure and Practice states:
Members may not speak against or reflect upon any decision of the House. This stems from the well- established rule which holds that a question, once put and carried in the affirmative or negative, cannot be questioned again. Such reflections are not in order because the Member is bound by a vote agreed to by a majority.
Comments criticizing or reflecting about a clear decision taken by the Senate shall not be made. I am not suggesting that such comments have been made in this discussion, but I wanted to put this as part of the background. What was done yesterday was dealt with in an orderly manner and we are not commenting on it.
Earlier in the day, questions were raised as to whether or not it is in order for a bill that is at second reading to be put to a vote, and whether there is some relationship to the number of members who would have spoken on a bill that is at second reading. Of course, as all honourable senators know, according to our rules, second reading is a debate on the principle of a bill. More clearly, if some honourable senators are opposed to the principle of the bill, they will not adopt the bill at second reading. That has occurred in the past and that was the question that was put forward. There have been several cases of such bills. One is Bill 86, An Act to amend The Farmers' Creditors Arrangement Act, 1934. The motion for second reading passed in the negative. Another is An Act to amend the Lord's Day Act, which was put for second reading and also passed in the negative. The answer to that question is that that has occurred.
As to the question around the timeliness of raising a question of privilege and whether or not rule 59(10) was available, I think, in light of what Senator Tardif has said, it appears that this rule might have been available. More typically, because the vote was 24 hours ago, the more normal proceeding of using a written notice would have been used.
I am unable to find a prima facie question of privilege in this matter. However, I think the wise counsel from Senator Cools is important. I will undertake to make inquiries because of the integrity of our reporting system and the professionalism and tremendous work that all honourable senators recognize is done by those who work so diligently in producing the Debates, while providing, as Senator Cools pointed out, opportunities for errors of spellings, et cetera, to be corrected through examination of the blues. I know there is no intent on any honourable senator's part to cast aspersions on the excellent work that our reporters do.
Honourable senators, I will conclude by saying that all honourable senators understand that there are technical limitations. The microphones can pick up only one voice at a time, when they are on, so what is recorded on the tape is what is picked from the microphones that are open at the time and does not cover absolutely everything said at the time.
That is my ruling. I will undertake to report on the administrative side of the issue.
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
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Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Greene, seconded by the Honourable Senator MacDonald, for the second reading of Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Electricity and Gas Inspection Act and the Weights and Measures Act.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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Orders No. 3 to 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
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Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Brazeau, seconded by the Honourable Senator Lang, for the second reading of Bill S-11, An Act respecting the safety of drinking water on first nation lands.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Dyck, for the Honourable Senator Mitchell, moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Peterson, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Inquiries
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Consideration of the eleventh report of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs (Bill S- 10, An Act to amend the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, with an amendment), presented in the Senate on November 4, 2010.
The Honourable Senator Wallace moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Duffy, that the report be adopted.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Munson, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 10 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Commons Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
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Resuming debate on the consideration of the eighth report (interim) of the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources entitled: Facts Do Not Justify Banning Canada's Current Offshore Drilling Operations: A Senate Review In the Wake of BP's Deepwater Horizon Incident, deposited with the Clerk of the Senate on August 18, 2010.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Lang moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Angus, that further debate on the consideration of the report be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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Orders No. 3 to 7 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 14, 8, 23, 10, 3, 13, 2, 7 (inquiries), 38, 57 (motions), 12, 21 (inquiries), 55 (motion), 16, 17 (inquiries), 50 (motion) and 11 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting.
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Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., calling the attention of the Senate to the Impact of Dementia on the Canadian Society.
Debate.
At 4 p.m., pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on April 15, 2010, the Senate adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples
The Honourable Senator Campbell replaced the Honourable Senator Chaput (November 16, 2010).
The Honourable Senator Dallaire replaced the Honourable Senator Cowan (November 16, 2010).
Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources
The Honourable Senator Sibbeston replaced the Honourable Senator Mitchell (November 16, 2010).
Standing Senate Committee on National Security and Defence
The Honourable Senator Day replaced the Honourable Senator Peterson (November 16, 2010).